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Quantified Self San Diego: Sleep Exploration Group
About
We are involved in the San Diego Quantified Self, we are interested in sleep, and we are incubating sleep experiments and studies to run. We collaborate about that, and more, right here.
Discussion
JxA FYI - This group was created for a Quantified Self San Diego Zeo Experience which ended early 2012 with a Meetup Group. Thus there probably will not be much activity in this group. Thank you, John Amschler QS San Diego Organizer
mrboodaddy joined and answered the questions: What brings you here? What do you hope to discover? “Have sleep apnea, and feel like I never get a sleep where i wake up fully rested :(. This is something I am really wanting to find more information about and take control over and fix. Am working with a Zeo now to track sleep patterns and have some other data collected as well, but am just now getting into the process of analyzing the data”
ccwgoh joined and answered the questions: What brings you here? What do you hope to discover? “Im working at the Sleep and Neuroimaging lab in UC Berkeley. Sleep data plays a central role in my life. ”
dsm joined and answered the questions: What brings you here? What do you hope to discover? “Zeo user... interested in diversity of sleep architecture in "normals" of various ages, both genders. Also, in unanticipated effects of common meds.”
Kimwhit joined and answered the questions: What brings you here? What do you hope to discover? “interested in sleep deprivation and impacts on cognitive and other functions, using ZEO, Live in SD, follow QS, also have 23andme and PGen results”
LunaLagoon joined and answered the questions: What brings you here? What do you hope to discover? “just want to track genomes and QS stuff in general... particularly interested in polyphasic sleeping (napping) and creativity.”
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JxA LunaLagoon - Have you Read Sarah Mednick's book - take a nap, change your life? ( http://www.amazon.com/Take-Nap-Change-Your-Life/dp/0761142908 ). She mentions that there are optimum times during the day to take a nap for better creativity and other times which are better to nap to increase your analytical skills such as math, science, etc. Hope this helps!
skjonas My attempt at polyphasic didn't do much for my creativity, except in the sense that I become creative in findings ways to wake myself up (ammonia capsules) and places to nap (server closet). However, since I didn't adapt to the schedule, I wasn't able to see what it's like to be fully awake for 21 hours a day and what I could accomplish creatively (which was a big draw of the schedule). Instead, I found out that I make a lot of subpar jokes when I'm tired.
8 Zeo Sleep Graphs Showing the Effect of Galantamine on REM sleep
Bulb Media / YouCanLucidDream.com Blog ·
posted by Ripplestone
Ripplestone joined and answered the questions: What brings you here? What do you hope to discover? “I'm here to learn more about sleep and dreaming. I am particularly interested in the effects of taking different supplements on the REM and Deep sleep. ”
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Ripplestone Yes supplemental like Vitamin D, B, C. Also other things like Kava, 5 htp, Ginkgo biloba, mugwart. I've studied a lot about which supplements that are know to cause vivid (sometimes Lucid) dreams, but I'm curious to try new things. There is plenty of things on the drug store shelves that i'm curious about how it effects sleep. Memory enhancing supplements sound promising for better dream recall. If they cause more vivid REM sleep, then they can be taken at 5am, after getting all the Deep Sleep out of the way. Supplements that cause more Deep Sleep can be very useful if taken at the beginning of the night, because after it wears off, then the body will usually go into REM rebound, and get Extra REM sleep to balance it out. That's great for vivid dreams. But, like you said, it's all about timing, and knowing if the supplement wakes you up, or puts you into a deep sleep. The ZEO is greAt for figuring that out! So i'm stoked.
Ripplestone I completed an experiment on the effects of Galantamine memory enhancing supplement on REM sleep and dreams. I presented this data to the San Diego Quantified Self Meeting on Tuesday. It was an 8 night study done in January. 4 nights of waking up at 5:30am and then going back to sleep. and 4 nights of waking up at 5:30 am, taking galantamine, then going back to sleep. I had 2 Lucid Dreams otu of the 4 Galantamine nights. There is very clear evidence from the graphs, that Galantamine causes you to go directly into REM sleep upon going to sleep, while nights I did not take Galantamine, I went directly into light sleep, and had REM about 20 minutes later. Here is a link to my blog post about it and my 8 graphs: http://www.youcanluciddream.com/lucid-dreaming/239/zeo-sleep-graphs-with-galantamine
Ripplestone I will be taking Kava Kava the next few night to see how it effects my sleep (and dreams). I'll present what i find out at the meeting on Tuesday 17th.
Ripplestone So far data inconclusive. Drank large amounts of Kava on 4 nights, each night had a different variable, and the sleep graph didn't have anything interesting to show for it. So far I learned that it takes a lot of discipline, and organization to do a good sleep study, and eliminate variables such as getting up early, and not taking other supplements, drugs, or drinking alcohol. I will re-approach this experiment again in the future when I am up for it.
Is there a San Diego "Science of Sleep" meetup slated?
posted by EriGentry
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EriGentry Tempted! Let me see if I can borrow the company jet.
JxA Hery Eri - We're onhold for the meetup on the 10th pending a location - I'll let you know when we have it locked down! Happy New Year!
gbiggers You may also now attach an image to a post. Great for sharing sleep graphs, illustrations, visualizations, pictures of interesting products, etc.
@JxA, thank you for pushing us to add this feature.
Currently you may attach an image using the general 'Add Post' action. Would you find it useful to also attach images to Questions and Articles?
gbiggers You can now post general thoughts and comments in additional to articles and questions.
When we started the Groups here, we wanted to help steer the conversation via structured items like articles and questions. That has been working, but many people asked for the ability to just post anything related to the group.
So here you go. A third button, for posting 'whatever,' as long as it is related to our topic.
Post away!!
So I'm interested in looking into the how to flight the snooze button. I tend to set my alarm and then hit the snooze button for 15-45min each morning until I actually drag myself out of bed. Has anyone else used Zeo data or tools to help them fight "snooze button syndrome" or looked into their data to better understand its effects?
posted by eramirez
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eramirez Yeah - I am actually just more motivated to get stuff done now and that has helped a lot. Nothing too scientific unfortunately.
JxA Ernesto - I believe that internal motivation is the ultimate method! I'm hoping many people find QS information useful to spark individual methods to motivation.
nagle joined and answered the questions: What brings you here? What do you hope to discover? “John invited me! I organize the Quantified Self in Boston, and there ran a meetup -- http://quantifiedself.com/2011/04/quantified-self-boston-meetup-5-the-science-of-sleep-recap/ -- where people experimented with Zeos. I am curious to see what develops here.”
what sort of sleep patterns is anyone else out there noticing? i'm surprised to find that i wake up 5-7 times per night. anyone else having the same experience?
posted by joonspoon
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JxA Joon - When you wake up, how long are you awake? Five minutes or longer? Waking up is normal... Here is one article with a video that says you may wake up to 70 times per night: http://blog.myzeo.com/whats-the-deal-with-wake/ I often 'wake up' at night but it doesn't register on the device; i view this as normal and not a problem with the device but rather the way zeo does the measurement averaging. Details here: http://blog.myzeo.com/how-does-zeo-score-sleep-stages-less-than-2-minutes-long/ Here is another post about awakenings: http://blog.myzeo.com/is-it-possible-to-have-more-awakenings-that-you-remember/ As a side note Sleep State is defined by brain frequency rather than experience. Frequency here: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Sleep#NREM_sleep
skjonas Is there a pattern to when you wake up? Is it right after deep sleep or REM sleep, for instance?
i've found starting with the zeo to be a learning process... haven't managed to get 100% complete data every night yet. wondering if anyone else is having the same problem, and how you've managed to fix it.
posted by joonspoon
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jmcinerney6 I usually have an hour of brisk walking per day. I rarely miss. So, you would expect more deep sleep if I say, double the workout?
JxA I don't have enough samples to know how far out of the norm you are, so I don't really expect anything in particular... but I'm curious to know if doubling your workout will change that!
Zeo Blog with links on how Daylight savings time impacts our sleep patterns for a few days
Make sure to use your Zeos over the next couple days... it'll be interesting to see how this data differs from the rest ·
posted by JxA
jayk joined and answered the questions: What brings you here? What do you hope to discover? “Having severely depleted myself through drug abuse, stress and night shift work (I no longer participate in any of these lol) sleep is very high on my list of priorities. I am looking to learn how I currently sleep (from a ZEO perspective) and what I can do to get the best possible sleep for me.”
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jayk Thanks John. I posted in the other study before coming here (when I first logged in and saw earthing I had to check it out). I would love to see some before and after reports from our ZEO participants who are not earthing but would like to try it. I wont live without earthing. It has made a huge difference in my life. I highly recommend getting a copy of the book and learning for yourself. It is fascinating. http://www.earthing.com/ http://www.earthinginstitute.net/ They are located in Palm Springs. I would be happy to share all that I know about it with anyone who is interested.
JxA Check out David Asprey's blog post on grounding with Zeo Data http://www.bulletproofexec.com/earthing/
wellthcare joined and answered the questions: What brings you here? What do you hope to discover? “Sleep is one of the pillars of being healthy. In addition, it is well known that it plays a significant role in many diseases. I am interested in hearing different perspectives.”
JxA I believe you'll hear many different things here!
jmcinerney6 joined and answered the questions: What brings you here? What do you hope to discover? “Got a pointer from San Diego Quantified Self folks.”
JxA Welcome John... Let's see what we can learn!
visionwind joined and answered the questions: What brings you here? What do you hope to discover? “The Zeo sleep trial, I hope to discover ways to sleep better based on my sleep patterns.”
Alex_C joined and answered the questions: What brings you here? What do you hope to discover? “I'd like to find out how to sleep BETTER without sleeping LONGER. I'm also interested in learning how to help my wife with her chronic sleep problems.”
JxA Looks like you and timafield have the same goal...
EriGentry joined and answered the questions: What brings you here? What do you hope to discover? “I'm here for a few reasons. 1. I want to know how John manages to do so many awesome things 2. I want to see how San Diego rocks sleep 3. I want to help my SD friends so they'll let me stay with them when I visit :) I want to learn how 16 different sleep studies can happen all at once!”
JxA Hi Eri :) You can crash at my place any time you're down here... but I warn you - I just moved in and my living room is a gym rather than a relaxing place to chill... I use the beach for that part of my life ;)
timafield joined and answered the questions: What brings you here? What do you hope to discover? “I want find out how I should sleep. Currently I sleep to much and am rested too little.”
bstaver joined and answered the questions: What brings you here? What do you hope to discover? “To learn how to sleep more soundly. Also interested in pairing the zeo with a noise recording device to learn if nearby train wakes me without becoming fully conscience of the disturbance and if likelihood of waking varies with stage of sleep cycle.”
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jwelgan I'm in. Trains pass right by my apartment at all hours of the day. While sleeping they are more common in the second half, not first.
JxA I like the idea of coordinating noise with sleep/wake - do we have any programmers in the board who would be willing to help with this? Here is a website which was created/sanctioned by Zeo and will get us started collecting the zeo data to a computer: http://zeorawdata.sourceforge.net/ All we need is a microphone recording at the same time and marking volume to understand more!
skjonas How well does the Zeo work for capturing the frequent awakenings that usually occur with sleep apnea?
JxA @skjonas - it is hard to say, but I can give you some background. Zeo measures sleep based on brain wave frequency. This means if you are 'alert' and your brain waves are still in the light sleep realm, a moment that you consider awake may not be recorded as such. For instance: There are times when I wake up and am tossing & turning and Zeo doesn't show awake. I also wear a BodyMedia which uses actigraphy (accelerometer data) as part of the sleep algorithm. I believe the combination of the brain waves and Actigraphy will give you the most reliable awakenings that match your perceived awakenings.
JxA @skjonas - it is hard to say, but I can give you some background. Zeo measures sleep based on brain wave frequency. This means if you are 'alert' and your brain waves are still in the light sleep realm, a moment that you consider awake may not be recorded as such. For instance: There are times when I wake up and am tossing & turning and Zeo doesn't show awake. I also wear a BodyMedia which uses actigraphy (accelerometer data) as part of the sleep algorithm. I believe the combination of the brain waves and Actigraphy will give you the most reliable awakenings that match your perceived awakenings.